Episode 50

Recognizing all Kinds of Labor in Open Source Ecosystems with Amanda, Katie, and John


14 January 2022

45 mins 54 secs

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About this Episode

Hello and welcome to CHAOSScast Community podcast, where we share use cases and experiences with measuring open source community health. Elevating conversations about metrics, analytics, and software from the Community Health Analytics Open Source Software, or short CHAOSS Project, to wherever you like to listen. Today, we have three amazing guests with us, Amanda Casari, Katie McLaughlin, and John Meluso. Amanda is a Developer Relations Engineer and researcher at Google at the Open Source Programs Office, Katie is a Developer Relations Engineer at Google, and John is the OCEAN Postdoctoral Fellow at the University of Vermont. They are with us to talk about Project OCEAN (Open-Source Complex Ecosystems And Networks), how it came to be, where it is now, and what they hope to accomplish going forward. We also learn more about what they see as an open source ecosystem, and they go in depth about contributions and taxonomy. Download this episode now to find out much more, and don’t forget to subscribe for free to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues!

[00:03:44] John, Amanda, and Katie tell us their backgrounds and how they got involved in open source.

[00:07:23] We learn more about OCEAN, how it came to be, and where it’s at now.

[00:11:25] Amanda and John explain a bit more about ecosystems.

[00:15:52] Georg wonders what they have realized early on or over time that they want to make sure everyone who looks at open source takes away from their work.

[00:19:59] Amanda brings up a question to the panelists concerning the idea of atomic information around software projects and balancing how much do they keep with a repo versus how do you allow for information to be distributed in many places that many people work, but it doesn’t get lost and you don’t lose somebody’s attribution for the work they do.

[00:28:58] Georg brings up the Types of Contributions metrics link CHAOSS uses that helps show how people can contribute to open source, and Katie shares her thoughts on it.

[00:32:13] Sophie talks about “Which contributions count? Analysis of attribution in open source” report and what this research explores. John explains how they balance things by varying the kinds of methodologies they use.

[00:38:49] Find out where you can follow Amanda, Katie, and John online.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

  • [00:39:45] Georg’s pick is LifeTime wellness and fitness center.
  • [00:40:31] Matt’s pick is places to visit in Colorado: Rocky Mtn. National Park, Great Sand Dunes, and Gunnison National Park.
  • [00:41:08] Sophia’s pick is emergent property.
  • [00:41:57] Amanda’s pick is trading Vermont Golden Dome books with her oldest child.
  • [00:43:10] Katie’s pick is the book, CPython Internals by Anthony Shaw.
  • [00:44:03] John’s pick is the book, Data Feminism by Catherine D’Ignazio and Lauren F. Klein.

Request from our Guests:

Open Source Folks: Take (and share!) this anonymous survey about receiving credit for tasks in open source! Conducted by researchers at the University of Vermont in partnership with Google Open Source.



  • Georg Link
  • Sophia Vargas
  • Matt Germonprez


  • Amanda Casari
  • Katie McLaughlin
  • John Meluso



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